The Crucifixion of the Lord
……Most of the furom’s question bins were full so I am directing this question to Apologetics.To my understanding ,Jesus was born of God the Father before time and also of His mother,the Blessesd Virgin,in time,Because of this,I was taaght raly in my childhood that Jesus is one divine person with twi natures-one human and one divine.Being divine person and therfeore God,isit correct to say that when he died God died?I uderstand that God is eternal i.e He is no beginning and no end and therefore does not die even just for a minute.Am I correct to say that the human nature (man)of Jesus die but not his divine nature person.Since the word naure came from a Latin word which means’to be bornd’I thought I was right but not really sure now.I hope you can clear up my onfussion.Thank you very mutch for hepl.God bless you…..
Anwered by Catholic Anwers on 02-13-2003:
Deal A1,
You are correct in saying that Jesus is a Person with a divine nature and a human nature.Because of this it is appropriate to say that God suffered and died even though it was Human nature that suffered death and not His divine nature.It is important to know waht we mean when we speak of God suffering death.
Because thw person of Jesus is human and divine ,we say that Mary is the Mother of Gos.Again,it is appropriate to say his in so far we mean she is the Mother of His Human nature and not his divine nature.
Fr.Vincenr Serpa.O.P……….From EWTN Catholic Q and Anwrs…..The Divine Natures of Jesus Question from A1 Espiriru on 10=07-2002;
Another question from EWTN answered by Fr Vincent Serpa….
God died?Question from Teresa on 8/22/2015:
I asked this question last week,but no one has cared to respond.
Please settle an argument.My friend says that because Jesus Christ is God(Secind Person of the Blessed Trinity).it i theological correct to say that God died on the cross on Calvary.
I menatian that only his Human nature died.I say that God cannot die(He revealed His Holy Name-I AM- because h is existince and life itself ,from which very aspect of his creation recieves and life).I am also remined my frien that deah is a consequence of a original sin.Sins God is all-holy and with-out sins.He cannot die.
Who is theological correct?Please advice.
Anwered by Catholic Anwers on 8/25/2005:
Dear Teresa,
One always needs to understand the cotext in which statement are made.While it is true that only the human nature of Jesus die,e is one person.So it is appropriate to say that the second Person of the Holy Trinity endured death.He died to save us.This can be said when on understand the context.
This is simmilar to calling Mary the Mother of Gos.Actually,she is only th Mother of the Human nature of Jesus.But he is one Person.It isa dogma of the Church that she is the Mother of God.But we must understand the context in which this is stated.
Fr.Vincent Serpa ,O.P.
COPYRIGHT 2016…
Fr.Vincent Serpa is a Domican Priest. Sinior theology Consultant sa EWTN.
How about the statement of Fr Vincent Serpa in EWTN…..How could we understand base on the mine of the Church?
Donato Potong [How about the statement of Fr Vincent Serpa in EWTN…..How could we understand base on the mine of the Church?] FIRST, FIRST, I AM WONDERING HOW COME THE ANSWERS OF FR. SERPA HAS A LOT OF SPELLING MISTAKES. IS THAT REALLY HIS ANSWER OR YOURS OR YOU HAVE EDITED IT?
WHEN I’M TELLING YOU THAT GOD DIED OR MARY IS THE MOTHER OF GOD I DIDN’T INVENT THAT AND I ALSO DIDN’T INVENT AN EXPLANATION FOR IT. I SIMPLY FOLLOWED THE EXPLANATIONS OF THE CATECHISM AND THE COUNCILS. UNFORTUNATELY I DIDN’T FIND FROM THOSE COUNCILS AND CATECHISM THE TEACHING THAT ONLY THE HUMAN NATURE DIED AND THAT MARY GAVE BIRTH TO THE HUMAN NATURE ONLY. NO NO NO… NADA, NUNCA, NIENTE… NEVER EVER… IN RUSSIAN:NYET, NYET!!! SO DREAM ON.
SECOND, FR. SERPA TAUGHT THAT GOD DIED:
(1) “You are correct in saying that Jesus is a Person with a divine nature and a human nature.Because of this it is appropriate to say that God suffered and died even though it was Human nature that suffered death and not His divine nature.It is important to know waht we mean when we speak of God suffering death.”
SO, FR. SERPA IS ACTUALLY SUPPORTING OUR STAND. HE EXPLAINED FIRST AND FOREMOST THAT JESUS IS A DIVINE PERSON AND BECAUSE OF THAT IT IS APPROPRIATE TO SAY THAT GOD SUFFERED AND DIED. HE IS COMPLETELY IN HARMONY WITH THE MAGISTERIAL TEACHING.
AS REGARDS HUMAN NATURE AND DIVINE NATURE. HE IS CORRECT THAT DIVINE NATURE DIDN’T SUFFER AND DIE. NOW ON HIS CLAIM ABOUT HUMAN NATURE AS THE ONE WHO SUFFERED AND DIED BASED ON THE PRESENTATION HE SIMPLY MEANS JESUS OUR GOD DIED AS A MAN OR THROUGH HIS HUMAN NATURE.
(2) “Because thw person of Jesus is human and divine ,we say that Mary is the Mother of Gos.Again,it is appropriate to say his in so far we mean she is the Mother of His Human nature and not his divine nature.”
THE MOTHER OF GOD IS APPROPRIATE. UNLIKE WITH REDENTOR WHO CLAIMS THAT THE MOTHER OF GOD IS WRONG. THE ONLY CONCERN HERE IS THAT IT IS ALREADY STATED THAT JESUS IS ONE PERSON WHO IS GOD. MARY IS THE MOTHER OF JESUS ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. AND JESUS IS GOD ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. MARY IS THE MOTHER OF GOD BECAUSE THE PERSON OF JESUS WHOM SHE GAVE BIRTH IS GOD. BOTH THE BIBLE AND THE MAGISTERIUM NEVER TAUGHT THAT MARY IS THE MOTHER OF HUMAN NATURE ONLY. I BELIEVE THAT FR. SERPA MEANT “MARY GAVE BIRTH TO JESUS OUR GOD AS MAN OR THROUGH HIS HUMAN NATURE”.
(3) “One always needs to understand the cotext in which statement are made.While it is true that only the human nature of Jesus die,e is one person.So it is appropriate to say that the second Person of the Holy Trinity endured death.He died to save us.This can be said when on understand the context.”
SO FR. SERPA SAID THAT IT IS APPROPRIATE TO SAY THAT THE SECOND PERSON OF THE TRINITY ENDURED DEATH. AND BEFORE SAYING THAT HE PUT IT IN THE CONTEXT: THE ONE PERSON OF JESUS. THE ONE PERSON OF JESUS IS GOD.
THIRD, THE COUNCIL OF EPHESUS WHICH DECLARED THE DOGMA OF THE MOTHER OF GOD NEVER STATED THAT “ONLY THE HUMAN NATURE” WAS BORN BY MARY. NO NO NO… NADA, NUNCA, NIENTE… IN RUSSIAN: NYET, NYET. HA HA HA… SO, I DON’T KNOW WHERE DID FR. SERPA GOT THE IDEA THAT MARY GAVE BIRTH ONLY TO THE HUMAN NATURE. IF THE CONTEXT IS THE ONE PERSON OF JESUS THEN MARY GAVE BIRTH TO THE ONE PERSON OF JESUS WHO IS GOD. SO THAT IS WHY THE BIBLE CALLS THE CHILD “GOD WITH US” AND THUS MARY IS THE MOTHER OF GOD NOT THE MOTHER OF HUMAN NATURE ONLY.
FOURTH, THE COUNCIL OF EPHESUS WHICH DECLARED THE INSEPARABLE UNION OF THE DIVINITY AND HUMANITY OF CHRIST “IN ONE DIVINE PERSON” OF THE SON OF GOD NEVER TAUGHT THAT ONLY THE HUMAN NATURED DIED. THE CONTEXT GIVEN BY FR. SERPA IS ROOTED ON “THE PERSON OF JESUS” WHO IS GOD.
FIFTH, THE TWO UNIVERSAL CATECHISM OF THE CHURCH SUCH AS THE CATECHISM OF TRENT AND THE CCC, TAUGHT THE FORMULA: MOTHER OF GOD BUT NOT “MOTHER OF HUMAN NATURE ONLY”. THEY ALSO TAUGHT: “GOD DIED” BUT NOT “ONLY THE HUMAN NATURE DIED”.
WITH ALL OF THESE, IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT YOU ARE LYING THAT YOUR POSITION IS SUPPORTED BY THE MAGISTERIUM. THE POPES AND THE CATECHISMS OF THE CHURCH DECLARES MOTHER OF GOD, GOD WAS BORN AND GOD DIED BUT NOT “ONLY THE HUMAN NATURE DIED” AND NOT “ONLY THE BODY DIED”. ONCE AGAIN I ADMONISH YOU TO STOP YOUR DELUSIONS.
AS REGARDS FR. SERPA, I RESPECT HIM AND I ADMIRE HIM. HE IS A BETTER THEOLOGIAN THAN ME. HOWEVER, MY ALLEGIANCE AS A PRIEST IS NOT ON THEOLOGICAL OPINION OF FR. SERPA BUT ON THE OFFICIAL TEACHINGS OF THE CHURCH AS CLEARLY, DIRECTLY AND SPECIFICIALLY STATED IN UNIVERSAL CATECHISM AND OFFICIALLY TAUGHT BY THE POPES AND DOCTORS OF THE CHURCH.
THE Q AND A ANSWERS OF FR. SERPA IS NOT A SOURCE OF MAGISTERIAL DOCTRINES BUT MERE EFFORT TO EXPLAIN THEM. THE DIRECT TEACHINGS OF THE COUNCIL OF EPHESUS IS CLEAR. THE ONE WHO SUFFERED IS GOD THE SON… THE DIVINE LOGOS:
“If anyone does not profess that the WORD OF GOD SUFFERED IN THE FLESH, and was CRUCIFIED IN THE FLESH, and EXPERIENCED DEATH in the FLESH, and became the First-Born from the dead, inasmuch as He is, AS GOD, both life and giver of life: LET HIM BE ANATHEMA.” [COUNCIL OF EPHESUS, 12th ANATHEMA of ST. CYRIL OF ALEXANDRIA, From THE CHURCH TEACHES, Documents of the Church in English Translation, p. 170]
THEN POPE ST. PIUS V AND THE ROMAN CATECHISM SUPPORTED IT:
“It is NOT, however, OUR BELIEF that THE BODY OF CHRIST was ALONE INTERRED: these words propose, as THE PRINCIPAL OBJECT OF OUR BELIEF, that GOD WAS BURIED. Similarly, according to the rule of the Catholic Faith, we also say with THE STRICTEST TRUTH that GOD WAS BORN OF A VIRGIN, that GOD DIED; for as THE DIVINITY WAS NEVER SEPARATED FROM HIS BODY which was laid in the sepulcher, we TRULY CONFESS that GOD WAS BURIED.” [CATECHISM OF TRENT of Pope St. Pius V, Art. IV, #8, par 2]
THEN THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OF ST. JOHN PAUL THE GREAT AND CARDINAL RATZINGER [POPE BENEDICT XVI] UPHELD IT:
CCC #468 “Thus, EVERYTHING IN CHRIST’S HUMAN NATURE is to be ATTRIBUTED TO HIS DIVINE PERSON AS ITS PROPER SUBJECT, not only his miracles but ALSO HIS SUFFERINGS AND EVEN HIS DEATH: ‘He who was CRUCIFIED in the flesh, our Lord Jesus Christ, is TRUE GOD, LORD OF GLORY, AND ONE OF THE HOLY TRINITY.'” In the footnotes the CCC points to the Council of Constantinople and of Ephesus as its foundation. The Council of Ephesus based its conclusions on the Anathemas Contra Nestorius by ST. CYRIL OF ALEXANDRIA who presented 12 Anathemas
SO, THE TRUE MAGISTERIUM IS CONSISTENT. THE POPES AND THE COUNCILS ALL DECLARES “GOD WAS BORN” “GOD DIED” AND MOTHER OF GOD NOT MOTHER OF HUMAN NATURE ONLY. FR. VINCENT SERPA, OP OF EWTN SIMPLY TRIED TO EXPLAIN THIS TRUTH OF FAITH AS STATED IN THE CATECHISM BY UPHOLDING THAT JESUS BEING A DIVINE PERSON SUFFERED AND DIED AND SO GOD DIED AND MARY IS THE MOTHER OF GOD. HIS USED OF ‘HUMAN NATURE ONLY’ IS A MERE EFFORT TO AVOID ATTRIBUTING DEATH TO THE DIVINE NATURE. WHILE THE EFFORT OF REDENTOR DE LA ROSA IS TO OPPOSE THE GOD DIED DOCTRINE AND HE STUPIDLY DECLARED THAT “ONLY THE HUMAN NATURE DIED” AND “ONLY THE BODY DIED” ARE DOGMAS OF FAITH. NO. FR. SERPA DIDN’T CLAIM SUCH A THING, HE SIMPLY PROVIDE HIS EXPLANATION OR CLARIFICATION OF THE DOCTRINES IN CATECHETICAL MANUALS.
I PRAY AND HOPE DONATO THAT YOU’LL LEARN FROM THE TRUE MAGISTERIUM AND NOT IMPOSE ON US YOUR NARROW MINDED INTERPRETATION OF THE DOGMA OF THE CHURCH. KNOW YOUR LIMIT AND SUBMIT TO THE FULL AUTHORITY OF THE TRUE MAGISTERIUM.