Th
is is the second part of my conversations with Darwin, a follower of Eli Soriano, who claimed that the crucifixion and death of the Lord Jesus Christ happened not on a Friday as the whole Christendom is claiming but on a Wednesday. His words are in red and/or enclosed while mine are in black. Read and be the Judge!
Darwin’s Argument
DARWIN: So mali din kaya ito?
24:21 But we hoped that it was he that should have redeemed Israel. And now besides all this, to-day is the third day since these things were done. – DRB
Eto pa: http://forums.catholic.com/
Idownload mo yung NT ng DRB na scanned copy at makikita mo sa p. 239 na to day ang nakalagay. Madali namang iedit yang nasa website e komo papabor sa paniniwala ninyo. Ang pagkakaiba kasi kapag sinabing to day ibig sabihin “SA NGAYON”. Nagpapakita ito ng fixed reference point sa isang lumilipas na sandali kaya nga SA NGAYON TATLONG ARAW NA ANG LUMILIPAS.
Maliwanag ang sabi ko na iyong TO DAY ay KATUMBAS ng THIS DAY na ipinakita nga sa definition kaya hindi deception yan.
Wala naman akong tutol na Sunday nga yung tinutukoy dyan na to day. Iyan nga kasing araw na iyan ang binibigyang reference sa pagsasabi nila kung ilang araw na ang nakalilipas simula nang malibing si Cristo. Tatlong araw na nga ang nakalilipas nang dumating ang Linggo.
Aside from that gaya nga ng sabi ko dati yung “IS” sa “to day is the third day” ay nagpapakita ng paglipas o pag-usad (ng panahon o oras) at kapag idinugtong sa salitang pamanahon gaya ng “tatlong araw” base sa Greek transliteration lalabas na mayroon nang tatlong araw na JUST PASSED AWAY FROM or BUKOD SA TO DAY or sa Linggo. So pagdating ng Linggo tatlong araw na ang lumipas. Katibayan na nga diyan ang mga salin ng Biblia na ginamit ko na nagpapakita nito.
τούτοις , τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει , ἀφ’
toutois tritēn t autēn hēmeran agei aph’
these things [the] third this day brings away from
You are just trying to assert something that is already proven wrong. Mali nga yung “the third day” base sa Greek. Ayaw mo kasing pakinggan yung tama nagtitibay ka sa kinagisnan mo na. Wala kamo yung “AWAY FROM” or “aph” or ἀφ’ at IDINAGDAG ko lamang??? E di tingnan natin:
Nestle GNT 1904
ἡμεῖς δὲ ἠλπίζομεν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ· ἀλλά γε καὶ σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο.
Westcott and Hort 1881
ἡμεῖς δὲ ἠλπίζομεν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ· ἀλλά γε καὶ σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο.
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Ἡμεῖς δὲ ἠλπίζομεν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ. Ἀλλά γε σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει σήμερον ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο.
Greek Orthodox Church 1904
ἡμεῖς δὲ ἠλπίζομεν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ· ἀλλά γε σὺν πᾶσι τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει σήμερον ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο.
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ἡμεῖς δὲ ἠλπίζομεν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ· ἀλλά γε σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει σήμερον, ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο
Codex Sinaiticus Fourth Century
ρουϲθαι τον ιηλ αλλα γε και ϲυν παϲι τουτοιϲ τρι την ταυτην ημε ραν αφ ου ταυτα εγενετο
Codex Bezae
Τουτοις τριτην ημεραν σημεραν αγει αφ ου ταυτα γεγονεν
O e lahat pala ng Greek texts e nakasulat yung pinagkunan ng salitang “away from” o yung ἀφ’. Nandyan talaga yan kaya nga MALI yung salin na gusto mong paniwalaan. Uulitin ko, ang tamang salin ay to day three days have passed…. Iyong to day ay nangangahulugan ng this day (or night current orjust passed).
I and the disciples are telling the truth. It’s you who has problem. Kung pagbabasehan nga ang Greek translation MALI lalabas ang today is the third day bagkus dapat ay to day three days have passed dapat ang nakasulat. Kuha mo na? Mayroon nang three days away from this day or to reconstruct, to day three days have passed. Pangapat na araw na nga yung Linggo e kaya SUMASANG-AYON sa akin yang Luke 24:21 sa tamang salin.
Hahaha can you try a better answer than this? Ayan na ang mga nagdudumilat na correct translations ng verse base sa Greek kaya wala kang maisagot ngayon hehehe… nice try man.
Hindi mo kasi iniintidi ang isinulat ko maliwanag naman. Kako walang mali sa saling “ngayon”. Ang mali kako ay yung sumunod na “ngayon ang ikatlong araw buhat nang mangyari…” na dapat sana ay “ngayon tatlong araw na ang lumilipas buhat nang mangyari…”
Again for the nth time MALI ang today is the third day. To day three days have passed dapat ang nakasulat kaya ikaw ang refuted. Hindi mo naman matututulan yung Greek translations e. ipinipilit mo lang yung English mo without consulting the origin.
Sino ako??? Hehehe isang walang kwentang tao na may sinasabing hindi mo matutulan. Hindi porket laganap na ang katolisismo at ang mga aral nito e nangangahulugan nang tama na kayo. No way jose. Dangan nga lamang mas maraming naniwala na Friday ipinako si Cristo pero hindi rin nangangahulugang tama yun.
To say otherwise is saying the truth. Yes it refers to Sunday BUT as per the Greek translations three days have passed come Sunday. Suportado yan ng mga salin ng Biblia. Teka nga bakit hindi natin ilagay sa actual? Kung Nisan 14 namatay si Cristo at Friday then anong taon ito naganap
The Rebuttal
[DARWIN: So mali din kaya ito? 24:21 But we hoped that it was he that should have redeemed Israel. And now besides all this, to-day is the third day since these things were done. – DRB]
As you see it’s not “to day” but “to-day”. The difference lies with your low comprehension of this word or phrase. Others who hold the same belief as you have no problem with either “today” or “to day”. But here you are trying to redefine English as much as you can. Good try but you can’t fool everybody.
[DARWIN: Idownload mo yung NT ng DRB na scanned copy at makikita mo sa p. 239 na to day ang nakalagay. Madali namang iedit yang nasa website e komo papabor sa paniniwala ninyo. Ang pagkakaiba kasi kapag sinabing to day ibig sabihin “SA NGAYON”. Nagpapakita ito ng fixed reference point sa isang lumilipas na sandali kaya nga SA NGAYON TATLONG ARAW NA ANG LUMILIPAS]
You are delirious, Darwin. “To day” as you are trying to explain in our previous exchanges is also synonymous to “this day”. It is only right that in rephrasing it, you’ll read “this day is the third day”. According to most translations, Sunday is the third day. Since it is the third day, the day before it is the second day, and the day before the second day is of course, the first day. There is no other logical explanation than that. Will it corroborate to how Jesus and Luke understand the first, second and third day? The answer is definitely yes. “Jesus said to them, “Go and give that fox my answer: ‘I drive out demons and heal today and tomorrow, and on the third day I finish my course!” (Lk. 13:32 CCB). Jesus believed that the present day (e.g. today) is the first day, the day after the present day (e.g. tomorrow) is the second day and the day after tomorrow is the third day. That is how the order of days is to be numbered according to the Bible.
Since St. Paul apprised us to put everything to the test (1Thes 5:21), we shall do it now with “Darwin’s theory of Wednesday Cruci-fiction”. Darwin said that Jesus died on a Wednesday. Let us try to imagine ourselves being there at that very day. If someone asks on that same day “when did Jesus die?” The probable answer would be “today” (Wednesday as per “Darwin’s theory”). Since Wednesday is the present day at that day, tomorrow, which is Thursday, is the second day then the day after tomorrow is the third day -that is Friday. I know Darwin will disagree because he believed it happened on a Saturday. But I believe others will agree how vain is Darwin’s way of thinking and logic?
If we Rephrase the words of the Lord in Lk 13:32 applying his death and resurrection, for the sake of a better understanding of the numbering of days, His words is something like, “I am dead today (first day) and tomorrow (second day) and on the third day, I will rise again!
Base on Lk 13:32, the first day is not after twenty-four hours but any moment of the present day. Darwin’s theory is a failure!
It shouldn’t be Darwin’s fallible way, it should be the Lord’s. It shouldn’t be Darwin’s fallible interpretation, It should be the Lord’s. Keep away Satan, it should be the Lord you have to worship not yourself.
[DARWIN: Maliwanag ang sabi ko na iyong TO DAY ay KATUMBAS ng THIS DAY na ipinakita nga sa definition kaya hindi deception yan.]
The deception is how you conclude that the phrase “This day (Today) is the third day” is a wrong translation. If it’s incorrectly translated, then show your protest to the Translators. You have better qualifications than them, right? However, for now that you haven’t made any objection to any publisher and they have not corrected it, the translations remain binding for all of us. You can fool yourself, not us.
[DARWIN: Wala naman akong tutol na Sunday nga yung tinutukoy dyan na to day. Iyan nga kasing araw na iyan ang binibigyang reference sa pagsasabi nila kung ilang araw na ang nakalilipas simula nang malibing si Cristo. Tatlong araw na nga ang nakalilipas nang dumating ang Linggo. Aside from that gaya nga ng sabi ko dati yung “IS” sa “to day is the third day” ay nagpapakita ng paglipas o pag-usad (ng panahon o oras) at kapag idinugtong sa salitang pamanahon gaya ng “tatlong araw” base sa Greek transliteration lalabas na mayroon nang tatlong araw na JUST PASSED AWAY FROM or BUKOD SA TO DAY or sa Linggo. So pagdating ng Linggo tatlong araw na ang lumipas. Katibayan na nga diyan ang mga salin ng Biblia na ginamit ko na nagpapakita nito]
“Is” is simply the present tense of the verb “to be” and it is use to link the subject of the sentence to the predicate… Your explanations are vain and far from the truth.
[τούτοις , τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει, ἀφ’ toutois tritēn t autēn hēmeran agei aph’ these things [the] third this day brings away from]
Above is not really an absolute translation that is why it varies from different versions of the Bible. Your personal interpretation is wrong because you only base it with your preferred translation. You neglect the other meaning thereby undermining the real purpose of the text. http://www.studylight.org/desk…
Greek/ Transliteration/ Translated words (some)/ Strong’s definition (some)
πασιν/ pâs/ all, all men etc./ individually
τουτοις/ hoûtos/ these, this etc./ This, these
τριτην/ trítos/ third, thirdly/ the third
ταυτην/ hoûtos/ this, these/ This, these
ημεραν/ hēméra/ daily, day, time etc/ the day etc
αγει/ ágō/ bring, bring forth, lead etc/ to lead
αφ/ apó/ at, by, for, from/ of separation, of origin
ου/ hós/ that, that which/ who, which, what, that
ταυτα/ hoûtos/ he, misc, she, these/ this,these etc.
εγενετο/ gínomai/ arise, be done, come to pass/ to become, to come into existence etc
See, unlike with your bias interpretation which is self-serving, the above shows that it is really the third day since the day it happens – that is the death of the Lord. Your interpretation is absurd knowing how low your “reading comprehension” in English. In telling someone of what happen days ago, you will refer this day as the last day from the day things have happened. It is absurd to say that “this day (Sunday), the third day (Saturday) had passed”. Their words have nothing to do with yesterday but today. Hence, your interpretation is far from what the text really meant and as per the literal translation above. Otherwise if your interpretation is right then we will have a simple translation which is something like “yesterday is the third since these things have happened”. However it is only in your dreams. As Fr. Abe had said before, you are free to hallucinate in this country.
Notice also, that “to day” is not in the literal translation. Another thing, the literal translation is “third” not “three” as you want to force us by saying, “may TATLONG ARAW na JUST PASSED AWAY FROM”. Funny that you can’t even make your phrase in complete English. “Tatlo” which means “three” cannot be found in the literal translation from Greek but the word “third” which in “Tagalog” is “Ikatlo” or “pangatlo”.
[You are just trying to assert something that is already proven wrong. You are just trying to assert something that is already proven wrong. Wala kamo yung “AWAY FROM” or “aph” or ἀφ’ at IDINAGDAG ko lamang??? E di tingnan natin:
Nestle GNT 1904
ἡμεῖς δὲ ἠλπίζομεν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ· ἀλλά γε καὶ σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο.
Westcott and Hort 1881
ἡμεῖς δὲ ἠλπίζομεν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ· ἀλλά γε καὶ σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο
RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Ἡμεῖς δὲ ἠλπίζομεν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ. Ἀλλά γε σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει σήμερον ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο
Greek Orthodox Church 1904
ἡμεῖς δὲ ἠλπίζομεν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ· ἀλλά γε σὺν πᾶσι τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει σήμερον ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο.
Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ἡμεῖς δὲ ἠλπίζομεν ὅτι αὐτός ἐστιν ὁ μέλλων λυτροῦσθαι τὸν Ἰσραήλ· ἀλλά γε σὺν πᾶσιν τούτοις τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει σήμερον, ἀφ’ οὗ ταῦτα ἐγένετο
O e lahat pala ng Greek texts e nakasulat yung pinagkunan ng salitang “away from” o yung ἀφ’. Nandyan talaga yan kaya nga MALI yung salin na gusto mong paniwalaan. Uulitin ko, ang tamang salin ay to day three days have passed…. Iyong to day ay nangangahulugan ng this day (or night current orjust passed).]
There’s no translation that supports your interpretation as what I’ve demonstrated above. As I’ve already said there is no “to day” in the literal translation. Much more, there is no “three days” but “third” or “third day”. ἀφ which can be transliterated as “apó”, can be literally translated in English (as used by KJV), as “from, for, by, on, since etc”.
[I and the disciples are telling the truth. It’s you who has problem. Kung pagbabasehan nga ang Greek translation MALI lalabas ang today is the third day bagkus dapat ay to day three days have passed dapat ang nakasulat. Kuha mo na? Mayroon nang three days away from this day or to reconstruct, to day three days have passed. Pangapat na araw na nga yung Linggo e kaya SUMASANG-AYON sa akin yang Luke 24:21 sa tamang salin.]
It’s not you who will tell us of the correct translation. Your translation is based only from your assumption and personal interpretation. You can’t even give a right interpretation in English therefore you can’t be trusted even in Greek. To reconstruct the words based on the literal translation is simply like: “this day is the third since these things have happened” (Lk 24:21). So it is therefore against your interpretation.
[Hahaha can you try a better answer than this? Ayan na ang mga nagdudumilat na correct translations ng verse base sa Greek kaya wala kang maisagot ngayon hehehe… nice try man]
Hahaha, your “correct translation” is just a personal interpretation and can’t be found in most translations today. As I’ve demonstrated above, your theory is a hoax. Go and try to fool others not us.
[Hindi mo kasi iniintidi ang isinulat ko maliwanag naman. Kako walang mali sa saling “ngayon”. Ang mali kako ay yung sumunod na “ngayon ang ikatlong araw buhat nang mangyari…” na dapat sana ay “ngayon tatlong araw na ang lumilipas buhat nang mangyari]
As I’ve already said, your translation, based upon from your personal interpretation, is absolutely wrong. There is no “three” in your given “Greek translation” but “third”. That alone will tell us that your interpretation is wrong.
[Again for the nth time MALI ang today is the third day. To day three days have passed dapat ang nakasulat kaya ikaw ang refuted. Hindi mo naman matututulan yung Greek translations e. ipinipilit mo lang yung English mo without consulting the origin]
Again for the nth time, your translation, based from your personal interpretation, is absolutely incorrect. “To day”, as what you imply as the absolute translation is not found in the literal Greek translation. We consult the origin and we found out that even there, you are wrong. Try much harder.
[Sino ako??? Hehehe isang walang kwentang tao na may sinasabing hindi mo matutulan. Hindi porket laganap na ang katolisismo at ang mga aral nito e nangangahulugan nang tama na kayo. No way jose. Dangan nga lamang mas maraming naniwala na Friday ipinako si Cristo pero hindi rin nangangahulugang tama yun.]
We have not talked about Friday yet, we are talking about Wednesday as the day of crucifixion and our previous exchanges testify that you have failed to prove that it is correct. Ask your friend (e.g not an ADD like you or Catholic) to read it and if he’s a real friend, he will tell you the truth about who made a good point in our conversation.
One more thing, to accept that you are nothing is an acceptance that your words should not be taken seriously.
[To say otherwise is saying the truth. Yes it refers to Sunday BUT as per the Greek translations three days have passed come Sunday. Suportado yan ng mga salin ng Biblia. Teka nga bakit hindi natin ilagay sa actual? Kung Nisan 14 namatay si Cristo at Friday then anong taon ito naganap?]
Let me stressed it again: “to say otherwise is absolutely wrong as I have already demonstrated above that your translation based on your personal interpretation is wrong.” You must be dreaming that the English Translations support your view. Just continue sleeping to keep on having this bad dream. Since you like it, I don’t want to spoil it.
By the way, be reminded that you are not a Greek Scholar to translate (biblical passages) based on your personal interpretation. Additionally, you are not a Historian to give us, with that much degree of certainty, the real date these things have happen. We have our Scholars too that have already determined that Wednesday Crucifixion is a hoax and we believe in them rather than you. Shalom!