The following are my conversations with a follower of Eli Soriano on the issue of the day of the Lord’s crucifixion. His name is Darwin. He believes with a firm conviction that it happened not on a Friday but on a Wednesday. His words are in red and/or enclosed while mine are in black. Read and be the Judge!
friday ba ang nakasulat sa greek text ha??? paraskeue ang nakasulat o araw ng paghahanda. hindi lahat ng araw ng paghahanda ay friday. o ano mga mapanglibak na katoliko na kaanib daw ng totoong iglesia anong masasabi ninyo? hehehe… sana maging maayos kayong kausap. hindi ba pwedeng maginoo kayong kausap at walang libakan?
You said “hindi lahat ng araw ng paghahanda ay Friday”. So tutol ka na ang LAHAT NG FRIDAY ay araw ng paghahanda? At may maibibigay ka bang Bible scholar na nagsasabing mali ang Good News Bible sa translation niya?
wrong analysis. lahat ng friday ay araw ng paghahanda pero hindi lahat ng araw ng paghahanda ay friday. bakit ka magsusumiksik sa salitang friday e hindi naman friday ang literal na katumbas ng parakeue dahil hindi nga. namatay si Cristo ng wednesday. so sa taong iyon ang wednesday ay isang “araw ng paghahanda”. (Note: This is in reply to other Catholic who asked, “kung hindi lahat ng araw ng Paghahanda ay Friday, pano mo nasabi na yung araw na ipinako si Kristo ay HINDI friday na araw ng paghahanda? aber?”)
So, sure ka talaga sa year? Maitanong ko lang saan mo nabasa ang exact year ng pagkamatay ni Christ?
oo sure ako sa year. saan ko nabasa? nasa Biblia din pinatotohanan lang ng kalendaryo. kung saan sa Biblia e saka na lang heheh secret muna
So much for delaying tactics, hindi mo naman masagot iyan e without posing a very big problem and a dillema. Anyway let me proceed with another question, naniniwala ka bang Sunday nga ang day of resurrection?
nope. it was a saturday one. anong big problem ang sinasabi mo?
Wow as I’ve said malaking problema at dilemma kakaharapin mo in espousing this theory… I’ll just give you one for the mean time… “Datapuwa’t hinihintay naming siya ang tutubos sa Israel. Oo at bukod sa lahat ng mga ito ay NGAYON ang IKATLONG ARAW buhat nang mangyari ang mga bagay na ito” (Lk 24:21 akin ang pagdidiin). Anong Araw ba ang Sinasabing “NGAYON”? balikan natin ang mga unang talata, “Datapuwa’t nang UNANG ARAW NG SANGLINGGO pagkaumagang-umaga, ay nagsiparoon sila sa libingan, na may dalang mga pabango na kanilang inihanda” (Lk 24:1 akin ang pagdidiin). Alam kong wala kang problema sa first day as sunday dahil sabi mo pa sa ibang comment, “Hindi komo Sunday nagpunta si Maria sa libingan at wala na roon si Cristo ay nangangahulugang Friday Siya namatay at Sunday nabuhay”. So sunday nga sila nagpunta at yon din ang pangatlong araw mula ng siya ay mamatay. So ito ang unang malaking problema sa “Wednesday theory” mo. Take note kinuha ko pa ang mga sitas sa “Ang Dating Bibliya (1904)” na paborito mo.
so ano ngang malaking problema doon sa “wednesday theory” ko? saturday nabuhay so natural pagdating ng sunday e wala na sa libingan. may problema ba doon?
So hindi mo nakuha na ang LINGGO, unang araw ng sanglinggo, ang sinasabing “IKATLONG ARAW” buhat ng mangyari “mga bagay na ito” (Lk 24:21)? Na ang “mga bagay na ito” ay patungkol sa kamatayan ng Panginoon na pinag uusapan nila sa mga oras na yon (Lk 24:18-19). Ngayon kung “miyerkules” nga ang araw na kanyang pagkamatay, pang-ilang araw ang linggo mula sa kanyang pagkamatay?
ahh yan ba ang isyung sinasabi mo? basahin mo yung ingles. hindi today ang sabi but TO DAY. magkaiba yun pag sa greek mo na titingnan.
But we hoped, that it was he that should have redeemed Israel: and now besides all this, TODAY is the third day since these things were done.” (Lk 24:21 Douay-Rheims Bible [emphasis mine]).
Sorry but there is no consensus among the English Bibles regarding the necessity of the use of “to day”. You may find it in KJV while in other Bible you may find the word “to-day”. One thing is clear, “To day” is just like the phrase “to date”. While the latter means “to the present date”, the former means “to the present day.” The present day at that time when the two disciples were talking to Jesus is Sunday, the first day of the week. In rephrasing the words: “the present day” or “now” is the third day… there’s no other way that you can get away with it. You see, we can employ so many words which sound different but mean the same thing.
On your part, I’m sorry, but it seems to me that you regard yourself authority in English language and Greek understanding. Show us first your credentials of your competence in English and Greek and you will have a place for our respect.
Ang iyong huling sagot ay hindi pagpapatunay na ang “to day” ay hindi ang kasalukuyang araw ng kanilang pag-uusap. Ang sagot mo ay hindi sumagot sa katanungan bagkus ang problema ay nanganak pa ng ibang problema gaya ng sumusunod: Una, parang sinasabi mong mali ang translation ng paborito mong “Ang dating Biblia” na gumagamit ng salitang “ngayon”. pangalawa, saan mo nabasa na ang “to day” ay nangangahulugang Friday (dahil Friday ang ikatlong araw mula Wednesday) Chapter and verse? pangatlo, ang iyong pag unawa sa greek, para mo kasing sinabi na nagkamali rin ang Greek Orthodox Church sa kanilang pagdiriwang ng Sunday as the day of resurrection. Do you really find yourself better than the Greek speakers? If not, then answer my simple question above: If Wednesday is the death of Christ or the first day of his death, what is the place of Sunday in reference to it?
Sorry din felipe pero ang sinasabi dyan ay ganito: una na may DRB din ako pero ganito ang nakasulat:
But we hoped, that it was he that should have redeemed Israel: and now besides all this, TO DAY is the third day since these things were done. – Luke 24:21
So bakit TODAY ang isinulat mo samantalang TO DAY ang nakasulat? Second, kailangang gamitin ang TO DAY dahil iyon ang totoong nakasulat dahil ang literal transliteration niyan is
τούτοις , τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει , ἀφ’
toutois tritēn t autēn hēmeran agei aph’
these things [the] third this day brings away from
Iyong THIS DAY ay katumbas ng TO DAY ayon sa Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance.
this day.
Neuter (as adverb) of a presumed compound of the article ho (t changed to s) and hemera; on the (i.e. This) day (or night current or just passed); generally, now (i.e. At present, hitherto) — this (to-)day. Mapapansin mo rin yung greek term used which is “AGEI” or “BRINGS” sa ingles. Iyan ang katumbas ng salitang “IS” sa “to day IS the third day” sa DRB na salin na ginamit mo. Ang kahulugan niyan ay properly to lead; by implication to bring, drive, (reflexively) go, pass (time), or (figuratively) induce:–be, bring (forth), carry (let) go, keep, lead away, be open.
Nagpapakita ito ng BILANG ng panahong lumipas kapag idinugtong ito sa salitang pamanahon gaya ng THIRD DAY kaya ang ibig sabihin dyang to day or to date sabi mo nga, THREE days na ang lumilipas. Mayroon nang tatlong araw na lumipas AWAY FROM to day or in this case, Sunday. Wednesday inilibing so ang 24hrs ay Thursday. Iyon pa lang ang FIRST DAY being Friday the second day and Saturday the third. Bago matapos ang Saturday or bago magsundown ang Sabbath ay nabuhay na Siya kaya pagkabukang liwayway pa lang ng Sunday ay wala na Siya sa libingan.
Kaya tama na araw ng Linggo naganap yan kasi tatlong araw na ang JUST PASSED or nakalipas AWAY FROM TO DAY or THIS DAY which happens to be Sunday.
May mga salin bang sumusoporta dito? Meron:
Our own hope was that he would be the redeemer of Israel; but he is dead, and that is THREE DAYS AGO! – Moffatt Translation–by James Moffatt
We had hoped he was the Messiah who had come to rescue Israel. This all happened three days ago. – NIV
Moreover, three days have already passed, since all these events occurred. – The New Berkeley Version in Modern English
But we expected that he was to deliver Israel. And lo, three days [have passed], since all these things occurred. – Murdock Translation of the Western Peshitto
Sa komentomo naman, una: HINDI mali ang Ang Dating Biblia sa pagsasalin sa salitang “ngayon” dahil ito naman talaga ay “THIS DAY” o TO DAY or TO DATE. Ang mali ay dapat “NGAYON tatlong araw na ang lumilipas…” ang pagkakasalin ayon sa Greek. Ikalawa, HINDI nga Friday ang to day kundi Sunday nga. Bakit sabi mo e Friday??? Ang ikatlong araw ay Saturday. Ipinaliwanag ko na sa itaas. Ikatlo, sinasabi ko na nga na MALI as in MALI nga ang Sunday resurrection kahit pa Greek Orthodox Church pa sila. At pang apat ang Sunday mula nang mamatay at ilibing si Cristo. Tatlong araw na kasi ang lumipas nang araw ng Sunday.
[Sorry din felipe pero ang sinasabi dyan ay ganito: una na may DRB din ako pero ganito ang nakasulat: But we hoped, that it was he that should have redeemed Israel: and now besides all this, TO DAY is the third day since these things were done. – Luke 24:21]
Sorry din, Darwin ngunit sadyang may ganyang nakasulat sa DRB. Ipakita mo ang DRB mo para hindi ko masabing nagsisinungaling ka. Ito ang nakasulat, “But we hoped, that it was he that should have redeemed Israel: and now besides all this, TODAY is the third day since these things were done” (Lk 24:21 [emphasis mine] http://drbo.org/index.htm) Kaya hindi parin consensus ang lahat ng Bibliya sa bagay na ito.
[So bakit TODAY ang isinulat mo samantalang TO DAY ang nakasulat?]
Iyan ang isinulat ko dahil yan ang nakasulat sa Bibliya the real DRB. ipinakita ko ang link sa itaas. hanggat wala kang maipakita, mali ang DRB mo.
[Second, kailangang gamitin ang TO DAY dahil iyon ang totoong nakasulat dahil ang literal transliteration niyan is τούτοις , τρίτην ταύτην ἡμέραν ἄγει , ἀφ’ toutois tritēn t autēn hēmeran agei aph’ these things [the] third this day brings away from Iyong THIS DAY ay katumbas ng TO DAY ayon sa Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance.
this day.
Neuter (as adverb) of a presumed compound of the article ho (t changed to s) and hemera; on the (i.e. This) day (or night current or just passed); generally, now (i.e. At present, hitherto) — this (to-)day.]
Nakapagtataka ka, sabi mo “iyon ang totoong nakasulat” tapos ang binigay mong translation sa greek mo ay this day. Binabasa mo ba ang sulat mo? That’s a form of deception…
Regarding sa concordance, Hindi naman talaga to day ang nakasulat diyan kundi “this (to-)day” na ang ibig sabihin ay pwedeng pagpalitin ang “this” sa “to-“. It means that It is either “this” or “to-“. Ganun pa man wala tayong problema diyan dahil ang “to day” or “this day” or “NOW” according to the concordance you mentioned ay pareho lang. So “today” is still right being consistent with the word “now” or “to-day”. base sa itaas hindi tama ang conlusion mo na “kailangang gamitin ang TO DAY dahil iyon ang “TOTOONG NAKASULAT” dahil ang ibinigay mong “literal transliteration” ay “this day” at hindi “to day”(emphasis mine).
[Mapapansin mo rin yung greek term used which is “AGEI” or “BRINGS” sa ingles. Iyan ang katumbas ng salitang “IS” sa “to day IS the third day” sa DRB na salin na ginamit mo. Ang kahulugan niyan ay properly to lead; by implication to bring, drive, (reflexively) go, pass (time), or (figuratively) induce:–be, bring (forth), carry (let) go, keep, lead away, be open.]
To copy and paste something doesn’t make you credible in the real understanding of the phrase or word. As I’ve said before, give us your credentials and you will have our respect. Besides, the definition above does not make your case believable. It still has no bearing until “to day”.
[Nagpapakita ito ng BILANG ng panahong lumipas kapag idinugtong ito sa salitang pamanahon gaya ng THIRD DAY kaya ang ibig sabihin dyang to day or to date sabi mo nga, THREE days na ang lumilipas. Mayroon nang tatlong araw na lumipas AWAY FROM to day or in this case, Sunday.]
See, all your explanations above will lead you to the same conclusion that the word or phrase “to day” is Sunday. This is correct.
[Wednesday inilibing so ang 24hrs ay Thursday. Iyon pa lang ang FIRST DAY being Friday the second day and Saturday the third. Bago matapos ang Saturday or bago magsundown ang Sabbath ay nabuhay na Siya kaya pagkabukang liwayway pa lang ng Sunday ay wala na Siya sa libingan.]
But this case, you got it all wrong! I don’t want to immediately conclude that the reason is either you have a little understanding of English or you would just like to deceive others. I really hope it’s the former. I would like you to check the following: 1.) Granting, without conceding, that Saturday is the third day, how would you reconcile that with the words of the disciples who said “”this day”, being referred to Sunday, is the third day” (e.g. as shown in your “literal transliteration” in Greek above)? You can’t have two consecutive days which are both “third day”. It’s either you are telling the truth or the disciples are lying. And 2.) The counting is wrong because the Jew reckons the counting from the “very day” a certain event happens not after 24 hours from it. One example is the creation, The Third day reckons from the start of the creation which is the first day not after 24 hours of it. Another example is the testing of Abraham (Gen 22:1-4). Notice the chronological order of days. In Gen 22:2, the Lord speaks to Abraham regarding his son Isaac who shall be offered as a sacrifice. Take note that the Lord’s instruction, though not specified, happens “sometime” in that day. If it is the first day, we still have to know. The next verse (Gen 22:3) speaks of another day after the day when Abraham first received the Lord’s instruction. In Gen. 22:4 tells us that it is the third day when they reach the place, the so called land of Moriah. The events therefore prior to this day must be in the second day and the first day respectively. The first day is the day when he received the instruction, the next morning after it is the second day and finally the third day is when they reach the place. One thing is clear to us, your counting is definitely wrong.
[Kaya tama na araw ng Linggo naganap yan kasi tatlong araw na ang JUST PASSED or nakalipas AWAY FROM TO DAY or THIS DAY which happens to be Sunday.]
I can’t believe, how deliberately low your comprehension of this particular phrase that you create this kind of inaccurate interpretation. The problem is that you added the words “away from” when in fact it is not actually there. To make the discussion simpler for you, we’ll use “this day” instead of “to day” as they are synonymous. I understand that you have no problem that “this day” refers to Sunday. As far as the disciples are concern, it is the third day. That is categorical thus Sunday is the real third day.
Another thing, the disciples didn’t say, “the third day, which is Saturday, “have passed” or “just passed” as you would like us to believe. “Wednesday theory” therefore is incorrect and unbiblical. As I’ve said there’s no other way you can get out from that fact… not even your other gospel. You are absolutely wrong.
[May mga salin bang sumusoporta dito? Meron:]
Ok tingnan natin.
[Our own hope was that he would be the redeemer of Israel; but he is dead, and that is THREE DAYS AGO! – Moffatt Translation–by James Moffatt]
My friend, the above verse actually destroys your argument. Let me give you an idea why, the translation tells us that on that day, which is Sunday, Jesus is dead three days ago according to the disciples. Though the time of their discourse with Jesus is not specified, we know that it happened in the AFTERNOON. In the succeeding verse, we read “But they prevailed upon him, “Stay with us, for night comes quickly. The DAY IS NOW ALMOST OVER” (Lk 24:29 Douay Rheims Bible).
Now, though incorrect, but for the sake of discussion, let me use your 24 hour argument. One day ago, using your standard, should be the afternoon of Saturday, two days ago should be the afternoon of Friday and three days ago should be the afternoon of Thursday. Afternoon of Wednesday, the time when Jesus has died according to your gospel, should have been four days ago. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY AND DEFINITELY WRONG.
[We had hoped he was the Messiah who had come to rescue Israel. This all happened three days ago. – NIV
Moreover, three days have already passed, since all these events occurred. – The New Berkeley Version in Modern English
But we expected that he was to deliver Israel. And lo, three days [have passed], since all these things occurred. – Murdock Translation of the Western Peshitto]
Can you please try a better argument than this? My answer above is still sufficient for these other translations.
[Sa komentomo naman, una: HINDI mali ang Ang Dating Biblia sa pagsasalin sa salitang “ngayon” dahil ito naman talaga ay “THIS DAY” o TO DAY or TO DATE. Ang mali ay dapat “NGAYON tatlong araw na ang lumilipas…” ang pagkakasalin ayon sa Greek.]
Parang sinabi mong walang mali pero meron. Nalilito ka na yata.
[Ikalawa, HINDI nga Friday ang to day kundi Sunday nga. Bakit sabi mo e Friday??? Ang ikatlong araw ay Saturday. Ipinaliwanag ko na sa itaas.]
There are no two contradictory statements that are both correct at the same time. If it is correct that the disciples said that “this day” (which refers to Sunday) is the third day then Saturday is absolutely not the third day. Your explanation above is well refuted. Try much harder.
[Ikatlo, sinasabi ko na nga na MALI as in MALI nga ang Sunday resurrection kahit pa Greek Orthodox Church pa sila.]
Wow, as if may authority at credential na naipakita with regards to the understanding of the Greek Language. Hindi porket sinabi mo ay tama ka na… Sino ka ba?
[At pang apat ang Sunday mula nang mamatay at ilibing si Cristo. Tatlong araw na kasi ang lumipas nang araw ng Sunday.]
“It is NOW (refers to Sunday) the third day since all this took place” (Lk 24:21 CCB). To say otherwise is an addition which, by your standard, is strictly prohibited. Shalom!