This is the 2nd set of a series of refutations against our misinformed brothers and sisters who took the liberty to “educate” us Catholics and show to us their “concern”.
In the first refutation (http://www.splendorofthechurch.com.ph/2014/12/07/exposing-the-errors-of-ms-tm-a-proud-evangelical-christian/), we showed how Ms. TM erroneously concluded that we Catholics worship the image of Mary and the saints. That lady is a member of the Evangelical Church a church which only started in the 18th century and has the audacity to tell us Catholics that our practices are wrong and that theirs is correct.
Now here’s another one whose name is Ethan who, just like Ms. TM, is similarly hurling “concerns” against the Catholic faithful. What a very good intention for him to lead us to the “correct path”, unfortunately for him, a deeper examination of his claims will show that he is just as misinformed as Ms. TM: This guy Ethan is a proud member of the Pentecostal Church.
Let’s begin…
Ethan: so mer0ng mas powerful na cmbahan? tsaka yung mas matanda tlaga? naku2! heart of st0ne tlaga!
There is only one true Church. That Church was founded by Jesus on St. Peter
Matthew 16:18-19
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
Which church was founded on St Peter and all the apostles? There is no other Church, which can claim the same history other than the Catholic Church. We can further read that St Peter who will be the leader of this Church on Earth was given the keys to the kingdom of heaven and the power to bind and loose.
Were there other Church leaders or Church groups which were given the Keys to the kingdom of heaven? No other, only St. Peter, the head of the Catholic Church, and his successors.
Charles Fox Parham founder of Pentecostal Church in Kansas USA in 1901
All other churches that were founded by mere men are obviously not the same as the Church founded by Jesus on St. Peter. One of these is the Pentecostal Church founded in 1901 in Kansas, USA by Charles Parham, to which this Ethan is a proud member. Pentecostals believe that speaking in tongues was the Bible evidence of Spirit baptism.
Aside from the obvious fact that the Pentecostal Church was founded by a mere man, and not by God, how do we know that this is a charlatan church? We know that Jesus promised that the SPIRIT OF TRUTH will guide his true Church.
John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
However, since this Pentecostal Church was founded by a mere man and not by Jesus Christ, it splintered into 700 large denominations and other independent Churches. The main division lies in the Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian group. It is clear that the Spirit of Truth is not with them, otherwise there will be no splinter groups within their Church. If the Spirit of Truth is not with them, then what is with them?
Isaiah 19:14
The LORD has mingled within her a spirit of confusion, and they will make Egypt stagger in all its deeds, as a drunken man staggers in his vomit.
It is the Spirit of Confusion, which resulted to these 700 break-away groups. Surely the Spirit of Truth will not produce this differing groups.
So Ethan, which do you choose – the Church of Charles Parham which is lead by the Spirit of Confusion? or the Church founded by Jesus Christ on St Peter which is lead by the Spirit of Truth? You have to decide.
Ethan: Mary is just a human.
Mary is a human indeed, but she is not “just” a human. Mary is very special:
The Angel calls her “full of grace” and “blessed among women”
Luke 1:28
And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
The Angel also said that Mary “found favor with God”:
Luke 1:30
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Elizabeth who was filled with the Holy Spirit calls her “blessed among women”
Luke 1:42
In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women
Mary herself declares that “all generations shall call me blessed”
Luke 1:48
for he has been mindful of the humble state of his servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed,
Catholics have been following the Bible, how about you Ethan, do you call Mary blessed? Does your Pentecostal Church follow the Bible and call Mary blessed?
Ethan: JESUS is the only Mediator to the FATHER
There is no question that Jesus is not only mediator to the Father. We agree on that. But your understanding of the intercessory role of Mary is gravely mistaken.
Ethan: We are all equal in the GOD’S sight.
We – as individuals – are indeed equal in the sight of God. However, in reference to all religious groups, we are not all equal. As I explained above, only the Catholic Church through its head St. Peter and his successors, has the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven and only this church was given the power to bind and loose. How about your Charles Parham and Pentecostal Church, was it given the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven? Was it given the power to bind and loose? Verse please.
Ethan: Well the church is not the issue here.
This is a common style among Protestants like Ethan and his fellow Pentecostals. They try to avoid this issue about the Church like the plague. They know for a fact that they cannot trace their history to the early Church. If they are only sincere, they should thoroughly examine their history. But that is something their Pastors never discuss, otherwise, their followers will start searching for the true Church founded by Jesus in Jerusalem and not by Charles Parham in Kansas USA.
Ethan: It is how you pray to the wrong person.
Ethan has a very limited view of prayer. Let’s see how Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines PRAY:
: to speak to God especially in order to give thanks or to ask for something
: to hope or wish very much for something to happen
: to seriously ask (someone) to do something
As we can see from above, to pray is not limited to speaking with God. To pray also means to ask another person to do something. That is why in court pleadings, lawyers often write their “Prayer” to the court. In short, to pray could mean asking God OR a person to so something for another person.
When Catholics pray to saints, they simply ask these saints to intercede for them. That is why in our prayers we say:
“Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
“Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us, sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen.”
We ask for the intercession of Mar and the saints that is why we say “pray for us”.
According to Ethan “you are praying to the wrong person”. Now, is it wrong to pray to Mary and the saints? Is it wrong to ask Mary and the saints to intercede for us? Certainly not, in fact in the Bible we can read that St Paul asked for the intercession of the Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, and Thessalonians.
Romans 15:30-32
I urge you, brothers and sisters, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me. Pray that I may be kept safe from the unbelievers in Judea and that the contribution I take to Jerusalem may be favorably received by the Lord’s people there, so that I may come to you with joy, by God’s will, and in your company be refreshed.
Ephesians 6:18-20
And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.
Colossians 4:3
And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains.
1 Thessalonians 5:25
Brothers and sisters, pray for us.
2 Thessalonians 3:1
As for other matters, brothers and sisters, pray for us that the message of the Lord may spread rapidly and be honored, just as it was with you.
If St. Paul asked or prayed to the Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, and Thessalonians, then Catholics there is nothing abominable when Catholics ask the saints in heaven and on earth to pray for them.
Ethan: But isn’t it praying to Mary is making her the mediator to God through Christ?
Mary’s role as an intercessor does not interfere with the unique role of Jesus as a mediator between God and man.
Think about this Ethan, why would St. Paul ask the Romans, Ephesians, Colossians, and Thessalonians to pray for him? Why did he not just go directly to God? Why did he ask other people to pray for him?
Again, it is because intercession is pleasing to God (1 Timothy 2:1) and it does not in any way interfere with the mediator role of Jesus.
Even Jesus asked people to pray for other people (Matthew 5:44), why shouldn’t we? Why don’t you follow that?
Ethan: Mukhang kayo ang kumplikado. Simple lang ang daan, si Hesus lang.
It is your ignorance of these Biblical passages, which makes this complicated to you. There is nothing complicated here.
Ethan: Naku naman bulok strategy nyo. Pinagbabawal ko ba ang intercession? Ang sabi ko di ayon sa utos ng Diyos na magdasal kayo sa iba! Sa kanya lang dapat magdasal! Lol
After Ethan was shown the passages regarding intercession, he made a sudden turn and “explained” his side. In Filipino we call this “kumambyo”. Sadly, his lack of understanding about intercession is immediately palpable.
He asked “pinagbabawal ko ba ang intercession? Ang sabi ko di ayon sa utos ng Diyos na magdasal kayo sa iba!” The ignorance of Ethan as to the meaning of intercession is appalling. Asking or praying to Mary and the saints is intercession, if you prohibit this kind of prayer, you prohibit intercession.
Ethan: Hindi sila Diyos, di nila alam an0ng nasa puso natin!
Again, this shows the lack of knowledge of Ethan regarding what the Bible says:
Revelation 5:8-14
The twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints … the elders fell down and worshipped
The 24 elders mentioned here are the saints in heaven, and the bowl of incense symbolizes the prayer of the saints on earth. It is clear that these saints in heaven are receiving the prayers directed to them by the saints on earth.
Intercession is not just done by the saints in heaven, but also by the angels:
Revelation 8:3-4
And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God.
The symbolism here is very beautiful and directly corresponds to what Catholics are doing. Catholics pray to Mary, the saints and the angels in heaven, these prayers are symbolized by incense inside golden bowls, these prayers are offered by Mary, saints and angels to God. This is the beauty of intercession.
So yes, they can hear our prayers.
Ethan: Mary is powerless.
Wrong again. Let’s read from the Bible:
James 5:16
The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
We already mentioned that Mary is “full of grace” and “favored by God”, certainly her prayer is powerful and effective.
During the wedding feast in Cana, if you remember, even if it is not yet the time of Jesus to make miracles, Jesus still followed Mary because Jesus loves her mother and because Mary is a righteous person.
John 2:4-9
When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.” And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.” His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.” Now there were six stone waterpots set there for the Jewish custom of purification, containing twenty or thirty gallons each. Jesus said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” So they filled them up to the brim. And He said to them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it to him. When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine
Did you read that Ethan? Jesus turned water into wine, even if that is not yet His time, because Mary requested her to do so and it is because Jesus loves her mother and because Mary is a righteous person.
Ethan: Ark of Covenant was God’s commandment. Mary’s image is not. simple.
What is the point here of Ethan? Is he implying that Mary’s image was not commanded by God and therefore wrong to use it in our prayer? If God does not command something, does that mean we should not do it?
Ethan should tell that St. Luke and tell him that he was wrong:
The Virgin and the Child a painting by St. Luke
This image was painted by St. Luke and it was carried by St. Thomas to India about one thousand nine-hundred fifty years ago. It is kept in the main altar of the Church of St. Thomas in Madras, India, the place where St. Thomas was martyred for spreading the Catholic faith. Today, Mary continues to be venerated through this painting.
Ethan: Haha! Really? It is more accurate to say that you are lying than to say I am accusing you falsely. Praying, kneeling, even kissing a graven image, still not worshipping? Lol
The skewed understanding of Ethan regarding praying before an image, kneeling before it, and kissing it is so evident here. Praying, kneeling or even kissing a graven image is not worship of the graven image.
If that is so, then Joshua would be guilty of worshipping a graven image because he prayed and knelt before the Ark of the Covenant which has a graven image (Joshua 7:6).
Ethan: Respect? Honor? Really? Respect for a wooden image?
We venerate these images because they remind us of the holy people which they represent. Note that the movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.
Ethan: Venerate – to regard with reverential respect (really? to a wooden image) syn: adore, revere, reverence, WORSHIP … syn0nim0us dw oh sabi ni meriam Webster
As explained, the movement towards the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.
Now to make a case against the Catholic veneration of images, Ethan, resorted to using synonyms and voila, he found the word “worship” as synonym of venerate and immediate thinks that venerate is equal to worship. But are they the same?
First, let’s differentiate “Synonym” and “Meaning”
According to Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary, MEANING is:
“the thing one intends to convey especially by language”
While a SYNONYM:
“one of two or more words or expressions of the same language that have the same or nearly the same meaning in some or all senses”
A very critical definition of synonym was underlined in the above definition. Based on this definition, a synonym can mean either the same OR nearly the same. Therefore, a synonym is not equivalent to meaning, because a meaning refers to what is exactly intended.
Ethan: Iba daw? diba pag synonym kapareho ang meaning?
Hindi, hindi magkapareho ang synomym sa meaning. I will give you an example. If you go to Thesaurus.com, and search for a synonym of the word “jump” you will find the word “dance” as a synonym. But are these two words exactly the same? Does jump mean dance? Ethan thinks so, using his own understanding of synonym and meaning. Pitiful.
Splendor: Genesis 3:15 “And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.” Yung mga galit kay Mama Mary kampi sa Devil.
Elenor, tell me sino ba ang tinutukoy dyan sa Genesis na 3:15 sa “he will crush your head” ? That is no other than Jesus and so if Jesus is the offspring of the “woman” then that woman is no other than Mama Mary. Malinaw?
Ethan: heto cnabi mu oh… bnuhay mu c Jesus sa mundo n0ong old testament times. Pinaparatangan mu pa kami na galit kami kay Mary.
This is the apex of Ethan’s flawed reasoning. I said that the woman in Genesis 3:15 refers to Mary and her seed refers to Jesus. Bakit hindi ba pwede ma prophesize si Jesus sa Old Testament, Ethan? Just because I mentioned that it was Jesus, binuhay na agad? Ethan must have forgotten the prophesies regarding Jesus in the Old Testament.
Isaiah 7:14:
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Based on Ethan’s faulty understanding, that is equivalent to making Jesus alive on earth in the Old Testament times.
Now let’s go to the more important question, who is the woman referred to in Genesis 3:15 and who is the seed that will crush the head of the serpent?
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
The woman referred to here is no other than Mary and the seed here is Jesus Christ the Messiah. It is not Eve nor her son – either Abel or Seth. This is further supported by the book of Revelation.
Revelation 12:17
Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring–those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.
There is no other Messiah except Jesus and he is the only one which will defeat the Serpent or Dragon for that matter.
Ethan: Kundi kami mgdasal sa kanya galit agad? LOL! So smart , bravo!
Hindi, pwede naman ignorante ka lang. 